I think that Bullfighting should be stopped, because all it is, is pissing an animal off, then killing it because "they are coming after you" well, if you wouldnt piss it OFF! then maybe it wouldnt come after you. =]

Before some of the PETA people reading get all too giddy:

Statistics show that the bullfighting industry in Spain is and southern France is booming like never before.

This is not an “anachronistic atavaric spectacle” closing in on extinction, like some hapless activists would have you belive, but a vivid and very alive art form that is the second most popular mass spectacle in Spain (65 Million tickets sold in 2006). A feat it reaches by employing far less marketing fanfare than soccer at # 1.
New bullrings are still being built and inaugurated in front of sell out crowds every year.

The percentage of people that consider themselves aficionados (lovers of bullfights) in Spain at 32% is the same percentage that has voted for the incumbent government party PSOE in the last elections. (Study by Metroscopia first quarter of 2007)

Statistics last year showed that through increased coverage by regional stations and Pay TV more Corridas have been televised than ever before. Live broadcasts of Corridas in Spain have increased by 40% in the last 6 years (153 in 2001 --> 218 retransmissions 2006).

Spanish/French Pay TV powerhouse CANAL + has snatched up the broadcasting rights for Feria de Abril in Sevilla, Pamplona Fair and probably Bilbao which can be seen in their entirety on TV for the first time in history. Feria de San Isidro of Madrid in May is regularly their strongest Channel of the Month.

In June this year, Barcelona, a city in which the tradition had come under fire by a weird alliance of Catalan nationalists and radical animal right activists in recent years, saw the return of Star Matador José Tomás which prompted the first sell out of that ring in over 21 years.

In Andalucia this year the number of Corridas celebrated has risen again after an already successful year 2006 by 22% in regards to that latter year ( Source: Regional Government of Andalucia 2007)

Contrary to some posts here the fiesta is gaining momentum in the north as well.The Santander fair has become one of the staples of the circuit over the last couple years with almost every event being sold out. Bilbao this again has grown in audience and profit ( 900.000 € +). Do I need to mention the ever increasing popularity of San Fermin?

Due to a new generation of young and talented new Matadors and hence increased artistic competition, several fairs have had the best ticket sales in their history this year. Sevilla (Seville) saw an historic eleven sell outs during the 2007 season (still counting).

The journalistic cliché of bullfighting loosing its basis with young people should be taken with a grain of salt. The Corrida was never a “youth thing”. Appreciation for complex displays of art usually comes with age; in this retrospect “La Corrida” is no different from e.g. Operas or fine art in general. The ranks of the “Las Ventas” bullring in Madrid were filled with well fed 50 and 60 year olds in the 60s as they are today.

In southern France there is probably an enthusiasm for bullfighting among young people like never before due to the success of the popular French/Polish Matador Sebastien Castella.

The fear/hope of bullfighting disappearing is as old as the Corrida itself (btw. the modern form of the Corrida only really became popular in the 20th century). But it has proven to be a very robust and enduring form of entertainment and artistic expression that seems to be here to stay…The age of obscene political correctness will eventually come to an end, PETA and friends might just fall victim to that and disappear from the face of this earth forever..

“La Fiesta Brava” (The Celebration of Braveness) in return has proven to possess the ability to even come back from the dead:
During the Civil War (1936-39) bullfights were stopped since fighting bulls had to be used for meat production.
Turns out people missed them and they quickly resumed as soon as the economic situation allowed…

Political correctness isn't obscene, but this "kill them all" attitude to animals is. That the bulls "had to be used for meat production" just about sums it up. What a great holiday for them!
Anyway it's not just the National Fiesta that accounts for those 10's of thousands of deaths. There are many local festivals where bulls are tortured to a slow death with spears, darts and flaming balls of pitch on their horns. Not much bravery on show there, the fascination being just the death of the animal.
All of this brutalises children, who grow up with a fear, turning to hatred, of animals. Tha fall out is countless acts of cruelty in our communities, and an epedemic of irresponsible pet ownership- a buying and abandoning cycle that far outstrips the rate of adoption. Those two symptoms are from my experience, but the important point is that those who are cruel to animals RARELY STOP THERE- this is proven. These brutal, obscene traditions put us all in danger.

If it's so popular, why the big subsidy?

it's not very minoan is it?
i wish all these modern rituals would cease to exist,lol,minerva & brigid

Bushey, if you read the article correctly it says that it is a claim not a fact. These radical animal activists like all ideological extremists have a difficult relationship with the truth. I can't give you an exact number right now but I know for a fact that Spanish cinema receives far more subsidy than La Fiesta Brava, 47 EUR a family seems far overblown.

As for Stuart: Oh that is why Spain has by far the highest rate of serial killers below the age of 13 and nobody is safe arround a bullring with all those blood thirsty pyschopaths arround. I was wondering, thanks for the enlightment. Good thing soccer fans have become even more peaceful since they stopped using real leather for the balls and only beat people to death or brawl outside the stadium on special occasions.

Seriously go and visit a bookstore. It is common knowledge that a lot of sociopaths actually often show traits of exaggerated affection for animals and babies to mask their true criminal personalty from themselves and others. Hitler is one example that comes to my mind. I guess if he were alive today he might just be active in PETA! ;-)

Taurine events, unlike most "art forms" are of enormous economic benefit both locally and nationally.

Part of that economic benefit is re-distributed to ensure proper training,
and part to enable smaller places to
have the same opportunities as larger ones.

There are also major benefits from the
massive employment created and from
substantial foreign currency inflows.

So, even if the figure mentioned has any validity, it is wrong to describe it as a public subsidy.

If it is a subsidy, it is the taurine "rich" subsidising the taurine "poor", with national and local government a major on-balance financial beneficiary.

If national and local goverments were
to lose this income, the general public would have to find far larger sums than that mentioned in order to make up the shortfall.

Dear Aficionado....

Though your words are eloquently chosen and you are obviously a well-educated person, you are sadly lacking in the most important and fundamentally essential human quality--compassion!

Any human being with a midly functioning conscience could never defend bull-fighting or any animal fighting blood sport under the guise of tradition, culture, "art form" or other excuse. Wealthy southerners held onto their slaves with an iron-fisted determination before the sheer will of others who felt compelled to change the way man treated each other put an end to slavery.

Part of mankind's lesson here on Planet Earth is to "evolve" and become more enlightened and concerned with the whole of existence. It is obvious that you, and far too many other human beings, are plagued by a sense of entitlement, over-indulgence, and a pitiful lack of genuine reverence for life.
I hate to burst your bubble Macho Libre--but the moon DOESN'T follow you around and if mankind is ever to experience the kind of true peace and fellowship with other people and beings in our world, he must realize that as long as he tortures and kills innocent,helpless animals, he will kill his fellow man.

Oh, how I pity you.

Tezzequital,

Who in the world do you think you are judging who is able to be compassionate and who not? What kind of sense of entitlement is that?

Any human with a midly functioning conscience and a brain would never dare to compare the fate of human slaves to that of fighting bulls thereby trivializing the centuries of agony and suffering that slavery has inflicted on countless of our fellow men! Don't you think that is kind of far fetched? Then again maybe you have heard of a Spartacus of the fighting bulls? I don't know, I don't read historic volumes published by bulls!

Who is talking torture and defenseless anyhow? The people involved with tauromaquia LOVE bulls. Nobody in the world has as much respect for these magnificent creatures as these people! Matadors,ganaderos and everybody else dedicate their lives to these animals. I bet you couldn't name one basic fact about fighting bulls. How about the one that this whole art form only developed in the first place because this animal is perfectly suited for it? La Corrida is in part a showcase for the spirit and beauty of the toro bravo. Want to talk suffering? How about not so much? Don't believe me? Then check out this link, if you can not trust it because it links to an article on a bullfighting portal then check with the faculty of Veterinary science of the Universidad Complutense de Madrid.

http://www.burladero.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=7118

Not that it matters but want to talk defenceless? Go and check some other links on the "see also" section of this site!

And how is this for enlightenment or genuine reverence for life: I think life and death are inseparable, that is just a matter of fact, for the toro bravo his death in the sand is just the end of his cycle of existence ,without it he wouldn't even exist. Sadly, and I think a lot of people would agree with me here, the fighting bull is actually so cared for, it leads a better life, a life more suited to its natural form of being, than many human beings on this earth.

Don't you think your endless compassion would help more if you directed it towards a more deserving cause? How about the real end of slavery? Mali, Haiti and other places not on your globe? Oh no I forgot , your way of ending slavery is to be really, really nice to animals.

I hate to burst your bubble but the moon doesn't follow you around either. And no matter how many vegan crackers you eat (I assume you are vegan because you talk against killing everything but plants, forgive me if that is not the case), people still won't really give a damn about your twisted views.

And one last thing, people who don't kill animals, don't kill humans? How about these folks? Are these some of your peace loving friends?

http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/monkey-madness-at-ucla/16986/


Oh, I would pity you, but I lack compassion, so go to hell!

DOWN DOWN SPAIN........
YOU ALL WILL ROT IN HELL

Spain, no thanks!!!!

Here come the strong arguments! Always the same with you people!

Look at how animals are raised to be killed and eaten in USA-HOW people are being killed for oil in muslim countries et al - what is more inhumane?

I look on this page and i see that, many people do not know the first thing about what it is like being in a bull fighting ring, the feeling you get when the bull first comes out of that door and then the rush of the torreros
Well i have felt this feeling and to be honest i cannot see the harm it is doing. You say that bul fighting is a crime and that Spanish people should rot in hell but then what do you say to those that do fox hunting?
Is it just pest control or is it a sport aswell. We do not tell you not to fox hunt and say that you should all rot in hell. For us it is exactly the same.
It is a tradition that has lasted for hundreds of years. The same as your fox hunting.

Hello, i have questions towards Aficionado, i am writting right now research paper at the American University of Central Asia, concerning the bullfighting topic. I am taking the "Not to ban" side. I really liked your arguments, i would like to ask you do you have any credible sources that you have used, if you have them could you please email them to me or post them on the comment's wall

Thank you

I think we need an objective debate on this question and the questions that are intimately linked to it e.g. Should fox hunting be banned? Here's a brief outline on what I think are the key issues and working from only one assumption:

ASSUMPTION:

1. Needless suffering, of man, or beast is wrong.

Of course it depends what we mean by 'needless'. I am using it in a way that ALLOWS for hunting and killing, if it is done without prolonged, or undue pain and suffering. If you are going to hunt an animal for food, or to keep the assumption as weak and acceptable as possible, for enjoyment; you should do your utmost to kill it outright. If you find it dying slowly, kill it.


ARGUMENT

1. During the Bullfight, the bull undergoes several hours of misery and pain before it finally drops dead from exhaustion and blood loss. Therefore it is morally wrong and should be banned. The question is thus, is our enjoyment (note the subjectivity of this term) worth more than the suffering of the bull. Even when the fight ends the matador rips through part of the bulls spinal cord: the knife renders the bull paralyzed, but still alive and alert.

COUNTERARGUMENTS

1. The struggle between man and beast is the essence of some sort of primordial fight. Fishing, for instance, involves man tiring a fish to overcome it

Response: The appeal of this counterargument is the "fairness" of the fight. With bullflighting, it is most certainly not simply man against beast; the whole process leading up to the fight is designed to rob the bull of its strength. Indeed, if it was man against bull simply and squarely, I would indeed be swayed by this objection. See http://www.sharkonline.org/bullfighting1.mv.

2. How does this fit in with religious/ritualistic practices (such as that leading to Halal meat) where an animal's throat is cut and its blood drained while it is still alive?

Response: This is a more difficult counter argument to contend with, and indeed a whole other issue in itself. Does this not count as a counter argument to bull fighting because religious practice, it can be maintained, is on a different level to watching something die for your enjoyment.

3. It is deeply rooted in Hispanic culture

Response: Keeping slaves is deeply rooted in many cultures (Hindi castes, certain African countries economic benefit, the British empire ??, American history etc etc). Circumcising young women is deeply rooted in other cultures. And ritualistic cannibalism is rooted in others. I can't see how culture, when it is morally objectionable, can be intrinsically good.

4. It brings huge economic benefits.

Response: So does slavery. The question here is, again whether the economic benefits outweigh the suffering of the animals. This is perhaps the most solid counterargument. It could be argued that if bullfighting didn't exist, the workers employed in the industry would get lower wages elsewhere and the collective loss in utility of the workers outweighs the collective suffering of the bulls. This is riddled with interpersonal utility comparisons and all sorts of questions which I 'm yet to think about. Have you got any responses? I feel that the answer is that it does not.

Conclusion

My conclusion is thus that the misery and pain of the bull outweighs our enjoyment and the economic benefits of bullfighting. It is an injustice, most of all, because it is not a fair fight.

One objection would be to reject the assumption, but I think if you take the ultra cynical route and indeed reject the above philosophically weak assumption then you get caught in a slippery slope. We have nothing to "PROVE" murder is bad; we have nothing to "PROVE" rape is bad. You can't. The proof rests in the strength of the moral intuition behind it; we say rape and murder is wrong because it FEELS wrong. Thus the assumption has an intuitive force, and the rest of the argument follows logically.

Having just returned from Spain and watched my first ever bullfight, I don't believe anyone should judge it till they have been and seen it. It took me 22 years to visit Spain as I disagreed with bullfighting however, I'm glad I have now seen it first hand. The crowd do not want to see the bull suffer, they want the death over and done with quick. They were more interested in the art, dance and elegance of the matadors.
Go watch, then comment. You may be surprised.

ula! i think they should stop bullfighting enit because it is horrible to the animals soo i will do anything to stop this shit from happening thank you for listening and there will be a change because people are dieing because of it i think you should just let them be

hiya bbz yhu7 ok lol this leason is boring lol haha bii bii xxxxxxx


tb