Just shows you how ignorant people are and how they need to get a job. How many nuclear accidents have US vessels had? ZERO! This is not about the environment as much as it is about anti-capitalism and anti-Americanism. GET A LIFE!

Gibraltar belongs to the Brits not the Spanish. You lost it in a war hundreds of years ago. The Spanish will never change, they insist on interfering in matters that do not concern them.

If Spanish environmental groups are so concerned about US nuclear vessels what don't they pay closer attention to the EXACT ships that call at the US Naval Base in Rota - Spain.

The lack of attention at Rotta just shows how this isn't environmentalism but Gibraltar bashing.

All this is just a relic of the era of Spain's fascist dictator General Franco. Realising that Spain was not simply technologically out of the nuclear era but also financially out he programmed the population against ALL nuclear technology. (Even medical equipment!)

General Franco also transformed a peaceful understanding that Gibraltar was NOT a part of Spain into a national rallying cry for its 'return' - keep in mind the Moors from north africa have a greater clam than the Spanish.

All this just reminds us how recent General Franco was, and how young Spains democratic credentials are in the case of Gibraltar and still immature.

Oh finally, Spanish environmentalists in the North of Spain, why don't you complain about those French nuclear power plants - they are MUCH nearer to you than Gibraltar.

How curious and so typically Spanish. There have been nuclear power stations in Spain for the past 37 years, day and night. Currently there are eight operational and two on permanent shutdown (but not in perpetuity) and these gentlemen ecologists in action (might they be Fascists?) are concerned about a nuclear submarine berthing in Gibraltar over a couple of days. It could be that these andalucian gentlemen ecologists (and perhaps Fascists, though I wouldn't like to say) do not like these nuclear units to be repaired. If this is the case, one has to wonder what state of repair their nuclear power staions might be in as, in Spain, they do not repair nuclear reactors, obviously, or we would have heard these gentlemen complain.

However, so far we have not seen tourists glow in the dark in Caceres, Tarragona, Valencia, Guadalajara or Burgos but we have seen triple headed dogs in Hamburg! Only kidding about the triple headed dog, it only had two heads and it was only heard to bark and not seen. Reportedly it was the result of a radioactive cloud released by the Acerinox plant in the Campo de Algeciras in May 1998.

What a joke! What is perfectly clear is that Spain suffers from an irrational national Pavlovian response to the sound of Gibraltar. Whisper the name Gibraltar into a Spaniards ear and watch him spiral out of control into an alternative reality. My advice, get some therapy!

The problem is not the submarine. It`s very difficult to have any accident in modern ships from modern countries. The real problem is Gibraltar (which is spanish).
What would you think if a strange country (stronger and more populated) had a piece of G. Britain and would not return it?

First of all, ecological nuts are leftists. Anyone calling them Facists are politically inept.
Secondly, Gibralter belongs to the United Kingdom and probably always remain so, so get over it.
Thirdly, this is about anti-Americanism. It reminds me of the school child that runs with the popular crowd to get acceptance. Frankly, I think that the base in Rota should be closed and Spain be treated as a hostile nation. The US needs Spain like a boar needs teets.

Gibraltar belongs to the U.K. because Spain is not strong enought at this moment. I would feel remorse having something that doesn`t belong to me.

U.S.A. is a country that me and many other spaniards admire. So any commenter presupposed something that is not real. Please let`s be objectives. Would you like to have a piece of your country taken by strangers?
I think Spain has been, is, and always will be part of civilized countries because it is its Nature.

I totally agree with A Ortiz, Spain's problem is not with the nuclear submarines it is with Gibraltar. What irks is the incessant beating about the bush and blaming Gibraltar for everything when in reality all that Spain is complaining about is Gibraltar and nothing else.

My complaint is that Spain complains when she percieves that something is being done to her, regardless of the reality but at the same time justifies the injustice she perpetrates on others on the grounds that it is very different! Ceuta, Melilla, the recently colonised Perejil, Peñon de Velez de la Gomera, Peñon de Alhucemas, Las Chafarinas, Las Canarias, Olivenza, Llivia. It is OK for Spain to have a colony in the middle of France, to disregard the treaty of Badajoz and deny Portugal Olivenza and to keep her colonies along the Moroccan coast because these are part of the legitimate legacy of history yet when it comes to Gibraltar, ah, no, Gibraltar es español - how typically Spanish.

I disagree with Bob that all ecological nuts are lefties. Ecological nuts of any nationality or political persuasion are just that, ecological nuts. I would also add that in Spain, lefties and fascists are not mutually exclusive tendencies. After 39 to 40 years of Franco, God bless him, it is difficult to distinguish these other than by their affiliation to political parties with aspirational names. Spain must be credited with great strides towards democracy and one has to admit that it is a democracy in development but given the way she disregards the democratically expressed wishes of Gibraltarians, on two occassions, not to be part of Spain and the misinformation the Spanish propaganda machine puts out against Gibraltar it is difficult to say that Spain is anywhere near attaining its aspirational goal to be a democracy though it might call herself that.

My last point for tonight would be to disagree with A Ortiz in suggesting that Gibraltar was taken by strangers. Gibraltar was given in gratitude by Spain under the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713. From the time of its capture in 1704 to that point Gibraltar was kept in trust for the claimant to the Spanish throne. Well, if you can make it all up why sholdn't I! I suppose that the treasure found in sunken Spanish ships was not stolen from the Americas, no, of course not!

To Bob as seen above;

Fascists ARE, and have always been Leftists, including such notable 'socialists' as Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and most other totalitarian dictators of the last century and this current one.

The prevailing notion that Fascists are 'right-wing' is completely a fabrication of the 'left' to cover their secret agenda and deflect criticism away from the leftist-socialist's need to control, corrupt and force their twisted logic and ideas at the point of a rifle if need be. That is not to say that all thugs and dictators are left-wing, but surely MOST of them are, and it is pretty much unique to socialists to use fascist doctrine and restrictive military control tokeep their captives(citizens) in-line.

It's time the truth about Fascists sees the light of day. Remember that Nazi was a word that stood for National 'socialist' party. and also, U.S.S.R. stood for Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The actual differences between Communist and Socialists is a very fine line as both doctrines are largely based on Marxist theory. Both used heavy-handed police state control and were responsible for the deaths of millions.

Remember this: scratch a lefty and you'll find a closet fascist trying to force his agenda on you. Bit by bit, little by little, our western society is becoming that future fascist police state one small step at a time. We all know where that leads, and also that it is a self-defeating ideology.

Treaty of Utrech was made while one of the signers had a gun on his head. You can see how valid it is that Spain could recover Menorca some time later.
Ceuta and Melilla, and Peregil, and Vélez de la Gomera, etc were spaniards when Morocco didn`t still exist.
The silver and gold brought to Spain were brought from spanish territories (and used by the whole Europe). At that times (Perú, Ecuador, Argentina, etc, didn`t exist for centuries.
Please read the Story objectively.
The "Black Swam" actually was the "Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes". Who was tellings lies?

If I invade a stranger home and I give it as a present to my family and three hundreds years later I ask them (their descendants) whom love they more. They`ll ask, of course: We love very much the one who gave us this present.So that`s not a valid argument. If you ask now Western Sahara inhabitants what`s their country they will say Morocco because the real ones are refugees in Mauritania.

LATEST NEWS: Franco has died.

Artic, I think your confusing degrees of totalitarianism in the connection you made between fascism and socialism. The social aspect of the nazi movement was governmental control exercised on the economical and ideological elements of Germany through nationalistic thought. Stalin and Hitler are on the opposite side of the political spectrum. Stalin killed to oppress politial thought, and Hitler killed because of a twisted nationalistic theory of genetic cleansing. As for the west becoming a police state, you only have to look objectively at the socialist government in Spain to see that their actions are very much done in the hopes of congruent thought and the pacification of the populiation to continue its consolidation of power. You have been lead to falsely call the things you see as fascist because that is what the left would like you to use. The socialist movement in Spain doesnt want you to see its backward slide toward communism, it shifts the blame to the fascists as a distraction. This is done in historical context of the past 50 years in which the communist dream of a Marxist Spain was stomped a new rectum by Franco and the bitterness that loss has caused to the psyche of Spain. Spanish socialists want you to forget about the mass killings of Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin that were done for the progression of their ideology and they quickly want you to move on, so that you can focus on the mass killings of Adolf Hitler which does not advance their ideals and paints a bad picture of rightist ideology.
Socialists also throw in the term "democratic" socialist and crow about their participation in elections(like modern Germany) because they feel that when they are properly elected, they have the power of the people behind them when they mandate gay marriage through the church and kill innocent, unborn children with your tax euros. Its very conscience clearing im sure. But, alas, its all done in the name of an "enlightened", "progressive" movement. What a fine contradiction.
Socialists also love multiculturalism. I find it interesting that while they want to bring in as many foreigners into Spain as possible (the darker and more impoverished the better), the English are treated like cockroaches. Maybe its because they are too white and try to assimilate into Spainish culture. Shame on them.

Thank you for your reply, Bob.

I think you might be misunderstanding my definition of what Fascism is. My version is this;

The use of totalitarian or oppressive, (although not necessarily military) force or control to achieve it's means. We see this sort of thing all over Europe by use of endless application of laws upon more laws, edicts and especially the EU constitution. The asinine laws I've seen cropping up with regards to such things as the curve of bananas in a market, the 'forced' use of the metric system, even with both units of measure displayed, the continuous appeasement to the sensitivity of immigrant populations that have no desire to assimilate or the stripping away of sovereignty of member states against their best interests. The 'State' or collection of States that use the oh-so patronizing attitude of 'Father knows best' Nanny-state, so just roll over and take it... If not, we will use the power of the State to force it upon you, type of oppression. I do not mean to include breaking of 'natural laws' such as murder, fraud, theft or assault. I'm referring to endless, meaningless intrusion on the everyday lives of it's citizens. Some may call it Socialism, but it is in fact a velvet gloved form of Fascism. The State pushes it's agenda against the will of it's citizens in contrived forms of control for control's sake. As I said in my previous post, Socialism is self-defeating. It starts out as a form of backlash to social inequity, but soon begins to swing the pendulum way too far the opposite way and picks up steam and soon incorporates fascist mechanisms to bludgeon those not following the script. As I also said before, fascism can be right-wing...... but in the last 90 yrs it has been predominantly LEFT. The ideology of left/socialism/communism are pretty much the same. Only the tools to enforce it differ. Hitler was a socialist..... and if you study some of the basic tendencies of socialist in the past, overt racism and eugenics plays out in various ways. They justify it by claiming that it 'what's best' for the state. Hitler used eugenics BEFORE he went after the Jews. Like all fascist, they use the power of the state to achieve their various agendas. Hitler was just a lot worse than most.

Thank you in advance for your reply.